unix_jedi (unix_jedi) wrote,
unix_jedi
unix_jedi

First rule of getting out of a hole: Stop Digging.

Michael Yon's ego has driven him to double down on his previous stance.

Perhaps it's his military training - "attack into an ambush". The only problem with seeing it like that is that rather than our ambushing him, he ran full tilt by himself into the "gun fanatic" camp - as we were peacefully minding our own business and roasting marshmallows.

Sunday, he posted another indirect attack to incite the "gun fanatics", labeling it "Truth or Dare".

How many of the guns in Mexico are coming from the United States? Good question that will prove extremely contentious if the number of weapons proves to be high.

He doesn't answer how much he thinks. If he's really upset about being "misquoted" and "misunderstood", why wouldn't he lay out his thinking, his chain of facts, and his conclusions?

Perhaps he's not as misunderstood and misquoted as he'd like to claim. Politicians has a line for that "... taken out of context ..."

Yesterday, another post. Tons of arms.
Nobody seems to dispute that tons of weapons apparently are flowing into Mexico. A big question is, where are they coming from? The only casualties assured to occur are those people who are shot by the real guns from the questionable sources, and the truth. There are almost certainly people within the U.S. government who would fit the facts to fit their agendas, and there are vast numbers of citizens who would do the same. Iraq and Afghanistan provide stark international reminders of this on the global scale. It seemed that every cranny of government and civilian political organizations, overtly lied or spackled over inconvenient facts that did not lead to pre-determined outcomes for Iraq, in particular. Personally, I don't trust any government, nor do I trust the amorphous "gun lobby" in the United States.
Amorphous? I believe this means that the Big Bad NRA hasn't said anything (as they didn't in L'Affaire de Zumbo until the dust had long since settled.)
Instead it's individuals - lots of us. All of whom are disagreeing, yet there's no good way to dismiss us. To lump us into an "amorphous" lobby allows Yon to avoid dealing with the fact that we're not paid, we're not corrupted by money.
So he claims we're just part of a lobby. Thus money's at the root of it. Not to be trusted. Yon's initial dispatch said "... lets be honest... "
You First, Mr. Yon.
All are filled with overt and hidden agendas. Huge money flies around.
Where's my check?
Having grown up in America, I'm not sure which to disbelieve more: the government agendas, or the private agendas.
Mr. Yon? You just gave away your viewpoint again.
I grew up in the South, and was shooting and hunting as a young boy. By my young twenties, I had become intimately familiar with perhaps a hundred types of small arms. Having lived in places like Florida, North Carolina, California and Massachusetts, I am extremely well aware of the gun arguments -- from various sides -- and the high emotions surrounding them. That intimate knowledge causes me to suspect the gun-fanatics as much as the anti-gun fanatics. Neither camp can be counted on to tell the good, the bad and the ugly. None are to be trusted with mere facts, even when actual facts can be found.
Ah, damn all their eyes, trust nobody, and ignore all the facts. Very logical of Yon. Too bad he's unable to actually defend this, preferring instead to stick to passive-aggressive attacks, smears and slanders.

(I haven't forgotten his email note on this: It's just fascinating to see apparent gun-fanatics misquote a document that is just inches away on the same computer screen. If they invest only that minimal level of attention to the guns they are apparently packing, it's just a matter of time before they accidentally shoot themselves or someone else. Attention to detail is an important component of gun safety.)

Some of the comments on these posts are very informative and illustrative. The first (starts from the bottom) comment does the sort of number crunching that is apparently "not to be trusted with facts":

"John": Finally! some numbers. 1547 guns in a year. That is "tons" now? they still don't say how many were traced, just 90% of the TRACEABLE ones were traced. Even if 100% were traceable, that means that 1392 were from the USA. ATF stats for 2007 say that 2.7 MILLION guns were sold that year. (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2007.pdf)
Not only that, but 207,000+ guns were legally exported. So 90% of the guns that were traced to the US turns out to be 1392 guns, that is less than 1 tenth of 1 percent (0.67%) of all exported guns, and less than 5 hundredths of a percent (0.05%) of all of the guns sold in the us in 2007. That isn't TONS, of guns, that is POUNDS of guns.



"ctone" lays the smack down in the original comment thread at comment 64.
Gen. McCaffrey in 1996 -
Gen. Barry McCaffrey, the White House drug policy director, traveled to Mexico in March 1996 smoothing the way for an agreement between the two governments which has resulted in Mexican soldiers beginning to train at Ft. Bragg and other American bases, and in the gift of 73 "surplus" helicopters, four C-26 surveillance planes, night vision goggles, radios and other military equipment. In addition, the White House has requested $9 million in military aid for Mexico for fiscal year 1998 (up from $3 million in fiscal year 1996) for the purchase of new weapons from U.S. arms manufacturers. - http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/mexico.htm

Gen McCaffrey 2009 -
The outgunned Mexican law enforcement authorities face armed criminal attacks from platoon-sized units employing night vision goggles, electronic intercept collection, encrypted communications, fairly sophisticated information operations, sea-going submersibles, helicopters and modern transport aviation, automatic weapons, RPG’s, Anti-Tank 66 mm rockets, mines and booby traps, heavy machine guns, 50 cal sniper rifles, massive use of military hand grenades, and the most modern models of 40mm grenade machine guns. - http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pdfs/Mexico_AAR_-_December_2008.pdf
There's some great reporting going on on Yon's site - in his comments, not by Yon.

Let me repeat part of ctone's McCaffrey quote:
electronic intercept collection, encrypted communications, fairly sophisticated information operations, sea-going submersibles, helicopters and modern transport aviation, automatic weapons, RPG’s, Anti-Tank 66 mm rockets, mines and booby traps, heavy machine guns, 50 cal sniper rifles, massive use of military hand grenades, and the most modern models of 40mm grenade machine guns.

Yon's question was: Tons of Arms Flowing into Mexico, But From Where?

According to McCaffrey, which was Yon's original source for his screed, the (current) Mexican Civil War is being fought with:
* sea-going submersibles
* helicopters and modern transport aviation
* automatic weapons
* RPGs
* Anti-Tank 66 mm rockets
* mines
* heavy machine guns
* 50 cal sniper rifles
* hand grenades
* 40mm grenade machine guns

Of those, only one might have been bought in the US. (And probably by the US Government and supplied to the Mexican Government.)

But Yon claims that we "gun fanatics" are misquoting him. Misunderstanding him.

Look at that list above, and then remember what Yon said to start this Zumboish story:
but we must be honest here and help curb flows that are killing Mexicans and Americans. The idea that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" should be saved for someone who will buy it. That's like saying IEDs don't kill people, people kill people. Nuclear weapons don't kill people...

Guns kill people. I'm not giving up my guns and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with other Americans who want to keep theirs. But we must be honest about the problems to face them.
Be honest? Mr. Yon, I think there's only one very dishonest person here.


[update: Yuri is fired up too]

Site Meter
Subscribe
  • Post a new comment

    Error

    default userpic

    Your reply will be screened

    Your IP address will be recorded 

    When you submit the form an invisible reCAPTCHA check will be performed.
    You must follow the Privacy Policy and Google Terms of use.
  • 2 comments